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Guest Chip Doyle - Your job in sales is to create moments of truth!


This is re posted.


Andrew

Hello, and welcome to repost it. In the next few moments we'll be breaking down the posts that we have found to be inspiring, interesting, or otherwise entertaining quotes that catch our eye and we feel are worth a deeper look. Thank you for stopping by


Larry

Chip Doyle teaches salespeople how to sell without sounding like a salesperson. He speaks he coaches is a big believer in the Sandler sales training method. You can find him on the Twitter's at chip sale. He's also got a good book we'll talk about in a second selling to homeowners the sand the way a proven process for selling products and services to consumers in their home. Chip, I can't believe you're on the show. Thanks for hanging out with us,


Chip

Larry, thanks for contacting me. It's my pleasure to be here.


Larry

Okay, so the very first time I met you, Chip, I was trying to sell you on coming on a radio show that I was doing in my previous life. And I remember that I done these meetings 1000 times I went in and gave you my pitch. And I said, Hey, Chip, will you please come out other and I was like, I knew at that point, I was gonna have to call you back in a couple of weeks, and you're gonna make a decision to like it or not, then the year like we're gonna make a decision right now. And that gets to our quote, your job at sales is to create moments of truth. I think that's the number one thing I've gotten from you. You're just talking truth to people in sales.


Chip

Yeah, that's true. It's, it's the lying that the prospect does to the salesperson and the line that the salesperson does the prospect that interferes with the ability to have a, you know, mutually beneficial financial transaction. That's basically what we're trying to do.


Larry

And I remember you saying to me, you're like, the one thing you want in sales is a yes or no maybes are the worst thing you could ever get.


Chip

I have seen a lot more salespeople fail by chasing and pestering prospects that we're never going to buy. I've actually never in 20, no, no, in 32 years of sales, I've never seen a salesperson fail, because he got to know from a prospect.


Andrew

And I guess you also want the moment of truth from both sides. Because you don't want the other like, Hey, I'm gonna be honest with you. And if you don't want to buy my product, you need to be honest with me, like, is that something like? How do you build that rapport at the beginning? Or how do you convey that you're being truthful? Or is


Chip

that that's how that's that's a that's a whole different podcast right there. But But no, it's that is the challenge is, you know, to create that level of trust, so that we can at least exchange accurate information. And of course, you know, in some professions, the prospect thinks they're telling you the truth, when they're actually not, because they're not an expert in whatever your field is. So it can be, even if people trust one another, Andrew, it can be tricky. To get the accurate information from one another. I can fit sales training, people never know what kind of sales training they're supposed to. They never know what kind of curriculum is best for their salespeople, I have to go in and figure out what is going to be the ideal topics to train them on. Because if I left it up to the owner, or the manager, we would we would get nowhere.


Larry

So sometimes, you know, I remember sitting in your office for the very first time and I had a whole different idea of sales. Like I thought sales was a bad word, and that we're working on smarmy things, but it really is just a transaction and you really kind of cleared it up. It's like a mutual beneficial thing for everybody involved.


Chip

You know what, what we're thinking about or preparing for this, this discussion today? It dawned on me that we really want to be more like a detective and less like a politician. And it's really the detectives job to find out, you know, did the suspect commit the crime? Well, in this case, should the prospect actually buy something, if the salesperson would just engage in a, you know, an honorable high integrity activity of just trying to find out the truth, they would do a much better job and you talk about Andrew, you talk about building trust, that is a great way to build trust with a prospect is not by trying to persuade them or convince him but to really find out the truth about what's really going on. It's it's a good it's a good technique for the salesperson to close a deal and it's a good technique to put the prospect at ease.


Andrew

I'm curious what you think about this. So I'm an actor, I've never worked in sales in this moment of truth thing is very true in acting like some of the most iconic moments of acting or when when the actor came with a moment of truth and going into a sales meeting or pitching someone I don't think is a natural thing that you do. Is there any part of selling that's a performance or is that you know, you know, David Alger is


Chip

no was that he is the father of him. Oh, come on. What do you call that the Whose Line Is It Anyway? What do you call that? improv? He is the father of modern improvisational acting. And if you look, he's got these rules of how to like for instance, don't think about what you're going to say while you're listening to your partner. Never block. There's all these rules. You know, it's amazing sometimes I've done many classes where I've actually trained the salespeople on David Algiers rules of improvisational speaking, because they totally translate. And it is it is a lot like a performance. You know, you got to put on your hat. And you need to follow those rules while you're having a conversation with somebody. But I can tell you right now, it's not about pitching. It's not about hogging all the scene. It's about a collaboration with your partner when you're up on stage. So yeah, it's definitely about being there, I would imagine that an actor would have a very easy time making the trek good actor natural to making the transition over to a salesperson.


Larry

You know, speaking of salespeople, like you've been doing this forever chip, is a salesperson either have it or they don't I mean, I'm sure you can learn how to become a better salesperson.


Chip

You don't that's not the case. I know. salespeople are, you know, it's all about 10,000 hours and all that thing, you know, the Beatles, when they went out to Germany to play, they suck. And when they came back, you know, no, this is like been documented when they came back like nine months later, because they were playing for like 20 hours a day. They were great. Sales is about learning and skills. I would say most of the really highly effective sales techniques are non intuitive. And most people that get labeled, you know, they're you'd make a good salesperson. They're wrong. That's not true. You'd if those were traits that we think of those traits that we think of outgoing, and the talker, and the smooth talk and all that that's really bad for consultative sales. So no, I think that anybody come and look at being an electrical engineer. My first job was designing wiring for the Corvette see those? See that picture on the wall, that's all the Corvette. If I've done electrical engineer who used to design wiring for cars can learn to be a pretty good salesperson, I would tell you that anybody can do it if they put, you know, guitar, man, I'm working my ass off on my guitar right now. And I suck. But boy, the more I play, the better I get.


Andrew

I like that, that engineers are historically the most socially inept people possible. So that is kind of counterintuitive. I'm curious, what you've experienced over the last six or seven months with not being able to see people in person as much. Has there been a learning curve on being able to connect with people virtually? Or are you just kind of waiting it out? So you can meet people in person again? Oh, no, no, this


Chip

is no, no, no, first of all, do not wait. This is not a time to be going into hibernation. This is a time to be active. And let's look at the medium that we're using right now. This is a highly effective medium to sell. And in fact, I gotta tell you before zoom, and before COVID, I closed most of my clients over the phone, I had hundreds of clients that if they'd walked into my office, I would have never known what they looked like. So so I don't really think you need to be in person, I mean, certainly would be nice. It's always better to be in person. But is zoom is a highly effective medium and the telephone can be. In fact, you talk about being a natural, one of the things that I was able to do was to develop my auditory skills to the point where on a telephone call, I could tell if somebody was distracted, just by I don't even know how I could tell, but I could just tell that they weren't paying attention or there was something going on. If you really hone those skills, you can be very effective on the phone and certainly on zoom. Don't hibernate people


Larry

are gonna hibernate it before you leave she chip tell us real quickly about this book he co wrote selling to homeowners to Sandler way.


Chip

Yeah, so I've trained a lot of contractors like like thousands of salespeople that work for construction and contracting firms or remodeling companies. And it's a big ticket item to big ticket sale. And so when it when Sandler wanted to write a book, they asked me if I'd be interested in in contributing to the book and ended up there was just me and one other person that was willing to do it, because it's a life of definitely a labor of love. But we didn't hold back we really wrote all we wrote everything in the book about how to sell to a homeowner, whether it's you know, real estate or remodeling or siding or roofing, electricians, we basically laid out the entire map of what is the take home? What are the techniques? And what are the best practices and what things to avoid? You know, there was a point where we were kind of considering holding a couple of the secret sauces back and we just decided, you know what, it's a book if they read the book, they're probably going to want to talk to us anyway, so so I'd highly recommend selling to homeowners to the Sandler way. It's a really good book, I put my heart and soul into it.


Andrew

I think that's really interesting. I said about engineers being historically awkward. I think contractors, mechanics and car salesmen are private least trusted so that's like an uphill battle to build something you came on


Chip

tractor so yeah, and and The thing Andrew is that it's one thing it's one thing to buy a car and and get ripped off. But man when you let somebody into your home and you let them tear your kitchen apart down to the studs, and you're hoping cross your fingers that they rebuild it in the next few months, and it's going to cost 150 $250,000 is a major decision for a homeowner so there's a lot of fear.


Larry

The book is selling the homeowners the Sandler way he has chipped oil, the salesperson for my life. You can find him on the Twitter's at chip sell. Chip Doyle. Thank you for coming on our show.


Chip

Thank you for having me. It's been fun.



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